tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post2883646303381458845..comments2023-07-25T04:49:12.937-07:00Comments on Education from the Student's Perspective: Being PseudotaughtMichael A. Reeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00946474786312892835noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-16421645917255781412011-08-15T12:33:04.811-07:002011-08-15T12:33:04.811-07:00I learned math via pseudoteaching and loved it. Hi...I learned math via pseudoteaching and loved it. History, on the other hand - bad idea for me.<br /><br />Again, I say, it's about the student. Let's offer math pseudoteaching. And allow the kiddos to choose if that's their preferred method.<br /><br />It would be mine.Bon Crowder at M4http://twitter.com/mathfournoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-74164497808619984292011-05-17T16:44:01.502-07:002011-05-17T16:44:01.502-07:00Another factor in the inability to retain, I think...Another factor in the inability to retain, I think, is our divided attention. Many students skim texts instead of read for understanding and retention; many do not know how to take good notes, which aid retention; and all of us are multi-tasking and thinking of many things at once, so that while we understand a concept momentarily, understanding is fleeting because focus and attention are divided or are of poor quality.Bunki68noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-14579495018416440402011-04-08T17:25:55.845-07:002011-04-08T17:25:55.845-07:00Great post, I've think you've identified a...Great post, I've think you've identified a crucial issue (retention). When I think back to my (all to prevalent) pseudoteaching episodes, I can vividly recall my students nodding their heads in agreement to some esoteric thing I'm teaching them. What I find interesting is that, later, when I'm helping them in my office, it'll be clear that they don't remember the details. However, if I do the same arm motion or use the same silly voice or whatever I may have done to be different in class, the student sometimes says "oh yeah, I remember now!"Andy Rundquisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04900696452285397726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-31726666998841613762011-04-08T17:25:55.558-07:002011-04-08T17:25:55.558-07:00I like your post as well. Question, do you think a...I like your post as well. Question, do you think a demo going slower or with more processing time would be helpful, or do you think any demo would still leave to a lack of understanding. What do you see as an alternative to a teacher who doesn't have he resources to have all the students participate in a lab, but still wants the concept to be taught?Peterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11866150720047198687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-53447141139708192742011-04-08T17:25:55.338-07:002011-04-08T17:25:55.338-07:00Riley...I'm getting there. But right now, I ha...Riley...I'm getting there. But right now, I have to go to the library.Michael A. Reeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00946474786312892835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-38783654139816864342011-04-08T17:25:55.091-07:002011-04-08T17:25:55.091-07:00Michael,I'm not sure if you saw this, but Ed H...Michael,<br>I'm not sure if you saw this, but Ed Hitchcock has an interesting response to this post over at his blog: http://www.teachscience.net/2011/03/31/pseudoteaching-and-tv-learning/ <br>I think that, yes, too often teachers use one activity, demo, or movie to teach an idea and that if we don't come back to it in a meaningful way, no real learning takes place. Thanks for the post and feel free to point out any pseudoteaching that you witness in my classes: the student perspective is very important, as you can tell from the responses to this post.Chris Ludwighttp://see.ludwig.lajuntaschools.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-46190244923005916292011-04-01T11:11:11.461-07:002011-04-01T11:11:11.461-07:00Michael,
I'm not sure if you saw this, but Ed ...Michael,<br />I'm not sure if you saw this, but Ed Hitchcock has an interesting response to this post over at his blog: http://www.teachscience.net/2011/03/31/pseudoteaching-and-tv-learning/ <br />I think that, yes, too often teachers use one activity, demo, or movie to teach an idea and that if we don't come back to it in a meaningful way, no real learning takes place. Thanks for the post and feel free to point out any pseudoteaching that you witness in my classes: the student perspective is very important, as you can tell from the responses to this post.Chris Ludwighttp://see.ludwig.lajuntaschools.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-76273293697600744952011-03-30T10:52:53.222-07:002011-03-30T10:52:53.222-07:00"I still must say that, when I'm stuck in..."I still must say that, when I'm stuck in a class where I absolutely have to watch a demo, I believe that I really do understand it and could apply it"<br /><br />This is a good statement of the problem. Students believe that they should be able to understand something having watched the demo. Then they get frustrated when it becomes apparent that they don't understand that much. <br /><br />But the mistake isn't in not properly following the demo, or not retaining the information in the demo.<br /><br />The mistake is in not realising that understanding of a non-trivial concept or problem happens by thinking it through independently, possibly several times.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-22047132746237563312011-03-30T05:53:17.243-07:002011-03-30T05:53:17.243-07:00Hi Michael, thanks for taking such care to write s...Hi Michael, thanks for taking such care to write something unique. Your thoughts helped me think about conversations I have with students when I feel that they haven't learned an idea solidly, but they feel that they did learn it, do know it, they just can't remember it right now (or sometimes they say something like, "I know it, I just can't put it into words"). Then later, when they have a chance to apply the idea and are able to use it confidently, I ask them, "what did you learn/change about your understanding" and they say, "nothing. I already knew all of this." It's a strange conversation, and brings up the question of what do we really mean by "learning"? If I can find a good place to work it in, I'll ask my students to read this as part of a conversation about what learning is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-22610364353571677712011-03-21T14:56:36.704-07:002011-03-21T14:56:36.704-07:00First off, Riley, I can't take credit for the ...First off, Riley, I can't take credit for the "figure out for themselves" idea. I saw it on the comment section of another blog. I can't remember where, though.<br /><br />Now, Riley, you do have very good points. But I still must say that, when I'm stuck in a class where I absolutely have to watch a demo, I believe that I really do understand it and could apply it. Then, over a very small time period, this understanding leaves me. Perhaps this is just my experience and my mistake was in trying to extend it to the general case, but I really do believe that one of the main issues is retention.Michael A. Reeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00946474786312892835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-17974275464021411192011-03-21T12:56:05.345-07:002011-03-21T12:56:05.345-07:00"the students figure out for themselves that ..."the students figure out for themselves that the initial and final momentums are equal"<br /><br />Yeah! This is how we learn.Rileyhttp://larkolicio.us/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-91342209405874095322011-03-21T11:46:24.186-07:002011-03-21T11:46:24.186-07:00Riley...I'm getting there. But right now, I ha...Riley...I'm getting there. But right now, I have to go to the library.Michael A. Reeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00946474786312892835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-45153600719536718752011-03-21T11:45:50.492-07:002011-03-21T11:45:50.492-07:00Peter, I think that, for a demo to lead to success...Peter, I think that, for a demo to lead to successful understanding, it has to fully explore multiple aspects of the topic (which could lead to period-long or even longer demos). For example, suppose the demo was on conservation of momentum and involved marbles colliding. To really get understanding, I think you would have to use multiple combinations of masses of marbles, change the velocities of the marbles, and, preferably, make the students figure out for themselves that the initial and final momentums are equal. That's the kind of demo that provides lasting understanding.<br /><br />As a response to your second question, thought experiments come to mind (ha ha!). If a student can design a valid lab to test an idea--isn't that a sign that they understand the concept?Michael A. Reeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00946474786312892835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-40221465134127106002011-03-21T11:39:18.374-07:002011-03-21T11:39:18.374-07:00I don't think Jack really gets it, most of the...I don't think Jack really gets it, most of the time. I think rhetorical mastery by a good demonstrator and our tendency to agree with people automatically collude to create the illusion of getting it. I suppose there must be a fleeting understanding of what the demonstrator is talking about, and maybe that's what you mean, but I think that's pretty distinct from the learning that takes place when a student constructs meaning for himself.<br /><br />That is, you can really learn something and then forget about it, but I don't think demonstrations cause anyone to really learn anything. I suspect that students who really learn "from" demonstrations are actively constructing their own ideas, and *that's* what's causing the learning. The whole problem with demonstrations is that if they're presented naively, they encourage passive watching.Rileyhttp://larkolicio.us/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-15301109291277435952011-03-21T07:49:48.017-07:002011-03-21T07:49:48.017-07:00I like your post as well. Question, do you think a...I like your post as well. Question, do you think a demo going slower or with more processing time would be helpful, or do you think any demo would still leave to a lack of understanding. What do you see as an alternative to a teacher who doesn't have he resources to have all the students participate in a lab, but still wants the concept to be taught?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11866150720047198687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-30272531594155654262011-03-20T20:39:25.000-07:002011-03-20T20:39:25.000-07:00Thank you! I think the reason I struggled so much ...Thank you! I think the reason I struggled so much with writing this post (I think, all things considered, I wrote this post four times) was that I wanted to add something somewhat unique to the conversation instead of parroting what everyone else has said. It's good to know that other people have noticed what I eventually settled on.Michael A. Reeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00946474786312892835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-492735772716514520.post-90787543947401877702011-03-20T19:50:17.912-07:002011-03-20T19:50:17.912-07:00Great post, I've think you've identified a...Great post, I've think you've identified a crucial issue (retention). When I think back to my (all to prevalent) pseudoteaching episodes, I can vividly recall my students nodding their heads in agreement to some esoteric thing I'm teaching them. What I find interesting is that, later, when I'm helping them in my office, it'll be clear that they don't remember the details. However, if I do the same arm motion or use the same silly voice or whatever I may have done to be different in class, the student sometimes says "oh yeah, I remember now!"Andy Rundquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04900696452285397726noreply@blogger.com